78. Rural Education: Public Funds for Private Schools Interview with Melissa Sadorf and Jessica Piper
Hello, one and all, and welcome back to The Rural Impact. You know by now, I hope that you do. We are the podcast that does work hard to connect those dots between policy and rural, everything in particular, rural quality of life. I'm Michelle Rothman again, so great to have you back with us. If you're new to the podcast, welcome. We're so glad that you found us. If you have not subscribed yet, of course, I'm always going to encourage you to do so.
Well, I know that lately we have been focusing quite a bit on rural health, but today we are gonna shift the focus because we're kicking off a brand new series, not just a special episode, but a series on rural education, in particular the state of rural education because there has been many, many policy shifts over the past year, , and a little plus more than, , the past year.
And certainly, as we always say, rural is not spared from any of the policy shifts and the impact, however trembling sometimes they can be. So, today we're gonna kick off by just getting a really big picture overview of the state of rural health. And for that conversation, I'm so pleased to be joined by Dr. Melissa Sadorf, who is the Executive Director of the National Rural Education Association. Really great insight. So grateful for her time joining me while she's on the road. As busy as ever.
And then we end our conversation with her focused on the topic of school choice in school vouchers. It was a very brief conversation where that is concerned, but this is something that we're going to be taking a much deeper dive into as the months progress, because this is something that's now risen from more of a state-level thing to very much a federal policy initiative. So, there's a lot to talk about.
And after I have that conversation with Melissa, you're going to hear from Jess Piper. You may follow her work on Substack, and we're gonna have a focus conversation on what's happening in the state of Missouri as someone who was a teacher for many years over almost two decades. She has a lot to say about the school choice program in Missouri and how that is impacting rural communities and students.
So again, this is a conversation we're gonna keep having. I'm so glad that you are here with us today. And so now it is my time to invite you to take a deep breath, tune out that background noise that is definitely waiting for us on the other side, and hear my conversations about the state of rural education in the United States of America with Melissa Sador and Jess Piper. Are you ready? I woke up ready today, so let's go.
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Michelle Rathman: Well, as promised, I am so pleased to have join us, Dr. Melissa Sadorf, Executive Director, as I told you all, of the National Rural Education Association. Thank you so much for joining us. You are a very, very busy individual traveling around doing an amazing job for that association. Welcome.
Melissa Sadorf: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here with you, Michelle.
Michelle Rathman: Well, I'll say, it's a very interesting time we're in. It's a very timely topic has so many things, but we have all things that have to rise to the top eventually. So today we're squarely focused on the state of education for our rural students, communities, parents, teachers, and whatnot. So, who better to have you kind of give us the big picture to start us off?
So, real quick, I had, you know, a conversation with others within your association years ago, but just give us a state real quick overview if you can, and then we'll dive into your research agenda because we've got a lot to talk about.
Melissa Sadorf: Sure. So, right now, the current state of rural education, I usually begin with our rural research agenda because it really just gives us a clear framework to understand both the opportunities and the challenges that rural schools are facing right now.
To start off, the agenda was developed with engagement with rural educators, researchers, and policymakers across the country, and it really centers on a core concept, which is that we believe that the future policy and research must be based in spatial and educational equity. And, that is, a recognition that place matters, that where a student lives shouldn't determine the quality of education that they're going to be able to access, whether it's distance to the school, transportation issues, access to healthcare or broadband connectivity, workforce availability, and, even, you know, advanced placement coursework opportunity.
So rural schools are, as we know, asked to meet the same expectations as larger systems, but with fewer resources and really fewer economies of scale. And so, the research agenda really helps bring that into sharper focus. There are some core tenants to that agenda.
The first is policy and funding. And, that is, you know, just talking about the, the many systems that govern education funding or staffing or accountability. And many of those were not designed with rural conditions in mind. So, that's one of the things that we often focus on. Another is obviously educator recruitment, as well as preparation and retention, because, as I'm sure you've had other guests speak to, rural districts are often competing for teachers and leaders without the same kind of salary structures or housing availability or professional networks that larger systems can offer.
And so we have to think differently about how we put preparation together for our teacher pipeline concerns, that kind of thing.
Michelle Rathman: You know, you know, before we go on, because I mean, these are all so important because every one of these things that you're discussing, you could unpack it so, so many layers to talk about. And they are, the common thread is the policy piece of that, and funding go hand in hand. And that is squarely connected to recruitment as you've just mentioned, because we are, we are talking to the condition of which, you know, teacher educator payment and opportunities to grow, and so forth.
So, one of the things that I think is interesting is that you've included in your research as a part of this, again, pulling at that thread, health and wellness. And as you've seen again, so much of these programs that require research, resources are being under-resourced. Can you just speak to a little bit about some, something tangible that says, the reason why we're focusing on this as a part of this research that informs policy is because finish that sentence.
Melissa Sadorf: Yeah. Well, specifically to health and wellness in many rural communities, the school is the one constant point of contact for children and their families. And when it comes to healthcare access, mental health services, whether it's a school counselor or a school psychologist, or any other related support providers, they're, they can potentially be limited.
And so, what that means is the school, as the essential hub for addressing those needs, can't fill those gaps. So, you have students that are going without. Educational success in rural communities really is connected to that overall well-being in the community itself. We know that, but it can be a struggle to ensure that when it comes down to it, there is somebody that can really get down to providing resources and supports for the family and connecting them together.
Sometimes that's not, that's not there. It's lacking.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah. My goodness. And there's a few others on here. You did. You mentioned earlier, college and career trajectory, because that's what the goal is. We, the wise part of my head says that's what the goal is, right? K through 12. And then you prepare them to go to that next place. What are some of the challenges that you see specifically facing rural students that are not prevalent in other places?
Melissa Sadorf: Yeah, oftentimes there's not access to those pathways, those post-secondary pathways. Recruiters don't come oftentimes to rural communities. They're harder to get to. There are fewer students that are there. There might be a counselor that is overworked, or there might not be a counselor in that rural community that is helping to make those connections to the possibilities that students have, whether it's career, worker, or life after, graduation.
So rural schools really do have to do some innovative work in those kind of areas, such as dual enrollment or CTE programming, having community partnerships that really connect students to both regional and national opportunities or things that they're thinking about.
But it can be a challenge. It's certainly something that we're paying attention to.
Michelle Rathman: And I would imagine technology is bundled in, in there as well. Access to, you know, more virtual programs and so forth. Again, tied to those resources that's tied to policy. See how that works. Oh my gosh. All right, so we're gonna move on because I've decided that we're gonna kind of start this, you know, we'll try it out with you, with you and I today.
It's kind policy lifts and let downs because at the end of the day, policy can lift us up. We've seen it. We've seen how great work can happen, great results can happen as a result, a good policy that provides resources and whatnot, we've seen how it can let us down. So, we'll start with one that I would put in the let-down category.
Which is kind of the 2025 dismantling of the US Department of Education's Office of English Language Acquisition. Discuss why rural schools are especially vulnerable. I think this can be so lost in all of the conversation. These are things that are not making headlines, and they need to be. Why is that?
Melissa Sadorf: Yeah. Well, the dismantling of the Office of English Language Acquisition, OELA, really is a very powerful example of why rural schools are especially vulnerable when it comes to federal infrastructure. And I wanna be clear about why that is.
First, people assume that when you mention multilingual learners, it's an urban issue, and it's not. Rural communities across the country, it doesn't matter where they are in the East or the West, are experiencing some rapid and sustained growth in linguistic diversity. Whether it's Nebraska, we have a member of our executive board that lives in North Dakota. They have multiple languages spoken at their tiny rural school, agricultural communities in Georgia.
It doesn't matter where they are, they have students that need language support. The structural problem is that the urban districts that are typically larger have a department. It has EL coordinators, a program specialist, and compliance officers. And when that federal guidance disappears, they have an internal capacity to fill some of that gap.
A rural district with 300 students and one administrator that wears six hats, that district does not have that capacity. So that federal guidance and technical assistance, they were essential to the workings of those grants for those rural schools. They're not supplemental.
Right now, as of January, 2025, OELA had 15 staff members. By March, after that reduction in force, it was reduced to literally one person. So that Title III program that OELA oversaw, which is nearly $900 million in annual funding, is now proposed to be zeroed out. That has an impact on what we are going to be able to do in our rural communities to stand up programming for our students.
Yes, absolutely. So, we're watching the disappearance in real time of a support system. And for rural schools, the disappearance of that support system is absolutely being felt immediately because there's just fewer layers between the federal decision that's being made and the child in the classroom, in our rural community.
Michelle Rathman: Wow, I mean, it can leave you speechless, but it can't because it can't continue. It's not sustainable. It's, you know, for whatever I can't, I can't state the reason why I think that is the question that we all must be asking ourselves, why is this wise? Why, how does this impact rural in a positive way?
So that's a down at the same time. I mean, you know, we have to stay on that topic, but there are. I think one thing that I read and I, we can just touch on it briefly 'cause there's some things I really wanna make sure that we get to before we go, is that in NREA Partners with Go Green to bring healthy learning environments to rural schools, which isn't through an EPA funding, which it was nice to see considering programs that the EPA are also, shall we say, challenged.
So, what, tell us just real briefly about that.
Melissa Sadorf: So, the rural reality is that many schools are operating in older facilities, often built decades ago, with a limited local tax base to fund some of those major capital improvements that we know are needed. So, whether it's HVAC systems or you know, the water quality issues, those kinds of things really do impact the learning environment every day in those classrooms.
There are issues that we know are top of mind for some of our superintendents and NREA's Partnership with Go Green really brings attention to the direct connection between the environmental health of the building that they're operating in and educational outcomes. And there's solid evidence behind that.
So, when kids learn in environments with poor air quality or temperature control, attendance actually takes a hit, it suffers. Their attention suffers, and educator's ability to do their job suffers. So, it's not a facilities issue; it is also a student achievement issue. What I love about the partnership with Go Green is that it models the kind of really cross-sector collaboration that rural schools really need right now.
Rural schools can't solve every challenge on their own with the assets that they have within their communities. Partnering with organizations like that, really focus on a particular issue like environmental health or sustainability, or facility quality, which is what they're doing, really brings that expertise and the resources into rural communities that really wouldn't otherwise be there.
And honestly, it's a conversation that's become even more urgent given the uncertainty around EPA funding, and the future of environmental program support at the federal level and rural schools with those older facilities and their smaller budgets, , are really gonna feel any reductions in that environmental programming, again, faster than anybody else.
Michelle Rathman: Oh my gosh. We, this could be an entire series all by itself, and I just wanna plant a seed. I mean, I'm having a lot of conversations this year, and I'm speaking this year about the need to build your bench. I tell hospitals, build your bench to say the same thing to schools. Like this is of interest to both of you collectively, those entities and to really have this conversation because it's such an important one. Thank you for focusing on that.
Okay. With the time that we have 'cause I do want you to, we'll come back, you had to have you come back to talk about the rural matters, Why Rural Matters 2025 report. And I wanna just real note, your research areas, that's your 22 to 27 report what is, what's out there.
So before we go, I wanna just touch on that. When, when are you, what are you working on right now to help bring it from, because you have a, you have got a rear view mirror. 22, you are 26 right now. How soon can we see something, , after that, that that time has passed? What are you guys looking at right now?
Anything new?
Melissa Sadorf: Well, we're getting ready to stand up some focus groups and surveys and some research gathering, data gathering, this year, so that we can now get ready to launch the next five years. And, one of the things that we'll do at the FARE Conference, our National Forum to Advance Rural Education, is we will have some of those conversations on the ground with the attendees that go to our annual conference. So, we're looking forward to seeing what is next on the horizon and grounding it in rural reality.
Michelle Rathman: And your data will be so important because right now, again, the, you know, questioning the future of data.
Before we let you go, I did wanna make sure that we touch on school choice, because that is something that we're having a lot of conversations about rural School of Choice, virtual charter schools.
There was an article, and you've got great research on your website. We'll make sure that re is on a resource page. Referencing the 2026 article about this very subject.
What can you tell us about? From where you sit at this really unique view that you have, the bigger picture of this, and talk about some of the challenges, and if you've got any opportunities, we wanna hear about that too. I'm not hearing much, so I rely on you to provide us with that sage information.
Melissa Sadorf: Sure, school choice is something that's very different in a rural community than anywhere else. And policymakers and I hope they're listening, if they design choice systems from an urban and suburban framework, they often miss that difference entirely, that things are not the same in a rural area.
In a city, school choice means something that's really real. There are multiple schools within a reasonable distance, and families really can compare the options that they have. In rural places, choice doesn't really typically provide a whole lot of options. Usually, it's one, it's that virtual charter school.
In my school district, when I was a superintendent before I retired, there were no other options in our area. At 600 square miles, we were the only choice, and so that's often the case. There are no other options close enough to matter.
So, when a student leaves a rural district for a virtual charter school, the funding follows the student. And that's policy design, right? Here's the rural reality. In a district of 300 students, losing 15 kids to a virtual charter school is real and immediate financial impact that shrinks programs and services available to students who remain. So that does have an opportunity gap.
Courses, shrink, extracurriculars get cut, staffing decisions have to shift, and I'm not, I'm not saying that families shouldn't have options. I wanna be clear about that. They should. But we need to ask whether virtual charter schools are actually expanding opportunity for rural students, or whether they're just kind of dismantling one public school that anchors that community together. That is the heartbeat, the hub of that community.
The research on academic outcomes for virtual charters is not encouraging, and accountability structures in many of our states across the country are pretty weak and need to be bulked up.
So, there's a layer that gets even less attention, and that's broadband access. So we're talking about virtual schools and communities where reliable internet still isn't universally available. And the irony of designing an online choice program for rural students who live in mobile dead zones is not lost on me. And I'm sure it's not lost on you
Michelle Rathman: Well, I'm sitting here going, choice is an interesting word. How you apply it, I mean, you're leaving people with virtually no choice. Really, my gosh. We're gonna keep an eye on that. I would very much like to turn to you in the future. We have what we call phone-a-friends around here.
You do your own podcast. We wanna make sure that people know where to listen to you real quick talk to us about that. And I'd like to stay connected, Melissa, because you bring some really interesting and insightful information.
We say these are not light subjects, but we do wanna enlighten people to understand how this is all connected. I would imagine you could talk to me a lot about what the impact has been to rural budgets as well, so maybe that's something you can come back and talk to us about, too.
Melissa Sadorf: I'd love to do that. I would really appreciate the opportunity to have further conversation with you.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah, that’s great. So, last place where people can follow you so they can, I know you do a lot of work where they can find you on social if you're so inclined. Are you on LinkedIn?
Melissa Sadorf: Yep. I am on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook, Instagram,Threads and Blue Sky. I am all over the place. And I also have a podcast called The Rural Scoop, and you can find that on anywhere you get your podcasts.
Michelle Rathman: Oh my gosh. Again, we'll make sure that we have all those links on our resource page. Again, Dr. Melissa Sadorf of the National Rural Education Association, we really appreciate you. It cannot be an easy job. Thank goodness you are in that chair.
Melissa Sadorf: Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Michelle Rathman: All right. For the rest of you, stick around. We have so much more coming your way. We'll be right back after this quick break.
Michelle Rathman: All right, we are back, and as promised, we're gonna continue this really important conversation focused on rural education. And of course, I am so pleased. I'm smiling from ear to ear to be joined by Jess Piper, Executive Director of Blue Missouri. Welcome back to The Rural Impact. How happy I am to say that we're so glad that you're here this morning, Jess.
Jessica Piper: Oh, hi Michelle. I am so glad to be here with you in the crazy times and what we're talking about, but thanks for having me.
Michelle Rathman: Well, it's my pleasure because you are no stranger to the topic of rural education. And Jess, before we kind of go on with the kind of outline that I provided to you, I wanna put a few data points out there that I think are quite relevant.
So just for our listeners, you know, we, in the first part of this conversation, talked about the greater state of rural education across America, but in Missouri in particular, these are some things I'll toss out, and we'll have you comment that on the other side.
70% of Missouri schools identify as rural. Teacher shortages in low pay is painful. What I read is that teacher pay is the lowest in the country in Missouri. Over 30% of Missouri school districts, mostly rural, have adopted shorter weeks, funding, and resources. I'm very familiar with the fact that a lot of our county taxing districts are shrinking, and so therefore we diminish the amount of money that they're able to collect for schools.
I also read about academic performance, whereas Missouri's K through 12 students often perform below the national average, with recent fourth-grade reading scores reaching record lows. Limited access to schools is what we're gonna talk to you about today. So, are all those pretty accurate, what I've just described?
Jessica Piper: Yeah, we're 50th and starting teacher pay, and so, you know, I left teaching four years ago with 16 years of experience and a master's degree, and I was making $41K a year. And what that looks like after teacher retirement is about $2,400 in my pocket per month, and so it's difficult to recruit teachers and to retain teachers, and that's why you see over 30% of the schools on a four day week.
It's not necessarily because they can't afford to keep the lights on, it's because they can't afford to keep the teachers. And so, if teachers can get a side hustle, you know, three days a week, then they're doing that, but we have teachers, new teachers starting out at $33,000 a year. Some of them are bringing home $1,500 a month.
Michelle Rathman: Oh my gosh. I mean, you could work retail, really, and be better off. And I don't diminish it because, oh my gosh. Right. So, let's talk about this. I am going to refrain from sharing a personal story, but I do have experience where this is concerned, and it confounds me.
Universal private school choice programs. It's all the rage, this is happening all over the country, which of course, for our listeners who aren't really familiar with this. It is the use of public funds that would be taxpayer dollars for alternatives to public schools, and of the 18. There are 18 states where this is prevalent. 15 states are Republican trifectas, which of course means when the governorship and both state legislators are of the same parties, such as the case in Missouri, where you are Jess.
And I think, you know, people might be thinking, well, why is that relevant? Well, in a moment, we'll talk about why that is, because again, you spent 16 years teaching high school English. And following this issue very closely. So, let's start by having you share more about the history of school privatization in Missouri, because I think you guys were super early adopters of this and the impact it's had on the K through 12 education.
And then we'll talk about the bigger picture.
Jessica Piper: Okay, so starting out, Missouri wasn't always like this. I remember when Missouri was actually ranked really high in education. Missouri was one of the first. States, if not the very first state to introduce kindergarten into, you know, into our schools.
And so, like I said, we came from a background of funding our schools. Now we have been under a Missouri GOP super majority for 22 years, over two decades. So, every time someone, especially, you know, my Republican representatives, point to it and say, well, we should privatize schools because obviously these public schools are struggling.
Do you know why they're struggling? 'Cause you took the money away. You defunded them for 22 years. We are ranked 49th in educational funding. So, what we send to our classrooms, we're at 49th in the nation. We provide about 38% of what a school needs. You know, as a budget. So in, say a town like mine where there's 480 people, and we have two businesses, how exactly are we gonna come up with the rest of that money?
Right? It's gonna be very difficult for poor, marginalized, rural communities to, to make up the difference. But, the ESA is how it started. It was a scholarship program and I do wanna say something, Michelle, before we get going vouchers have been put on the ballot in seven states. Vouchers have never won.
People do not want their money going to private religious schools. And I'll tell you, 98% of the schools who receive the money in Missouri are religious schools. So, when people say, you know, they're secular, nope. It's religious schools that it's going to, and in general, it's going to families who already were paying to have their children in a private school. So this is, in effect, a coupon using taxpayer money.
So, in a community like mine, there is no choice. There is no private schools, there's no religious schools. The closest high school is 56 miles one way for me. So gimme 20 vouchers. What's it matter? I can't take my kid there. And all you did was pull the money from my local school.
When I ran for office, I had knocked on over a thousand doors. Never had one person in rural northwest Missouri tell me they want their tax money to go to a private religious school.
Now, what started off as a scholarship program is now funded by the general fund, and this is what a lot of people don't understand.
They start like that. They say, well, businesses and wealthy people will get a tax break to buy a scholarship for a poor student to get them into a better school. No, that is not how it ends up. And now 100% of the voucher program is coming from the general funds in Missouri. It was a lie. It was a scam the entire time.
Michelle Rathman: You know what really in, it's, it's very upsetting to me when you, when you said earlier, you know that, that these are ballot measures that are not passing, and yet states are bulldozing over what the voters want.
Jessica Piper: Yes.
Michelle Rathman: As is the case in Missouri. So, and all, you know I read a lot this week, and all over the map where voters are saying, no, we don't want this.
And they're going ahead, and they're going around voters and doing it anyway. So, let's talk a little bit about the voucher and school choice policies framed as expanding opportunity. You just touched on it just a bit, but where rural is concerned, what I'm seeing when I'm reading the folks I'm talking to, it really is a barrier.
Transportation being one of them, I mean 50 miles away. What are some of the other barriers? I mean, for just working parents to try and navigate all of this at, at the same time. It's not that great to have your kids in school four days a week either, because you're then, then you're just navigating a different kind of challenge.
Jessica Piper: And I understand coming from a community where my school has been defunded for 22 years, I understand thinking if I did get a voucher, I could send my kid to a school that maybe would be able to function better and be able to pay their teachers. But one, you have to remember that these private religious schools do not have the same standards that public schools have.
I have my oldest son is severely dyslexic. He would not have been admitted into a school because they don't have the resources to help him. So, if you have any child with, you know, an IEP or with a learning disability, you might not be able to get in. In fact, you're likely not to get in.
You might be gay. Your child might be gay. They can, you know, not admit you for those reasons. Don't have before and aftercare. So, if you're a working parent, how are you gonna do that? You mentioned the buses. There's no busing. You've gotta kid get your kid there. There's no lunch facilities. You're gonna have to pack a lunch every single day, which is fine for some people, but for others it's, that makes it very difficult.
There's no access to free and reduced lunches. Sometimes they're required to wear uniforms. You have to pay for that. If your child wants to play sports, you have to pay for that. So all of these things are pay-to-play. And we know what happens with voucher systems because I'm right on the Iowa line, and this just happened in Iowa.
Every single private religious school that started accepting the $7,500 voucher from the state raised their tuition. So, in the end, they're keeping your kid out anyway, because they don't want, they don't want our kids, right? They want other kids, and so that's what we're finding out. Even if you get a voucher, good luck finding a school.
Michelle Rathman: Jess, what is your experience in talking with other educators? Because we know, as I said, at the top of our conversation, teacher recruitment and retention is quite challenging and all over the country, but in particular in Missouri. You've got other, you know, other factors that are contributing to that. How is school choice in Missouri affecting teacher recruitment and retention in rural areas? I would imagine it's challenging.
Jessica Piper: It's challenging in the first place, but then not even just the ESA, but the constant battering and beating up of teachers by, you know, GOP legislators is enough to make someone wanna walk away, all of these, you know, book bans and people talking about indoctrination, with teachers is difficult.
And then you're gonna pay somebody who has a bachelor's degree, $33,000 a year, they can't even make their, their school loan payments on that. It's been devastating, and the fact that it keeps growing. So ours started out, you know, like with a scholarship, and then it moved to the general fund. They pulled $50 million outta the general fund when they said they couldn't find money to pay teachers, right?
But they found $50 million and this year, $60 million. And we know this is how it goes. You can look at states like Arizona and see what has happened to that state. They have decimated their budget, a $1 billion hole, because of funding private religious schools.
They don't have water resources. They can't pave their roads in certain places because all of the money they have taken out for school vouchers, and this is all we had to do, fund the schools. Fund the schools that we have always had. You didn't have to do this, but they did it once, because of Christian nationalism, and two, because they're lining the pockets of the people who own these schools.
Michelle Rathman: You know, and we, we have these conversations and sometimes I just really feel like we're talking into a void, but that's not true. There's a lot of work being done across the states 'cause the future of our children and their education. I don't, you know, aside from healthcare, I can't think of anything.
And of course, making sure that they have nutrition. Of anything more important for our future and their future. So, talk a little bit about the work of Blue Missouri and voter education around education policy. You know, on this show, we're doing a new thing called What You Know, policy can lift you up or let you down.
So let's talk about how you are lifting up education, policy, conversation, and your state through your work.
Jessica Piper: So, I ran in 2022 for the State House, and I got my butt kicked. I ran in a district that hasn't elected a Democrat in 32 years, and we've never elected a woman, so I kind of knew what I was up against. But the point of the matter is, is that I had to say we have to stand up in all these districts for our educators, for our schools, for our students.
Because when I would knock doors in communities where the literacy rate was 33%, Michelle, you can't imagine what the conversations are like. We have people coming to the door who don't know how, you know, federal politics are any different than state politics. I would talk to somebody about the road not being managed, not being paved. And they'd say, well, Joe Biden.
And I'd say, friend, that's not Joe Biden, that's your state representative. He's the one who defunded your road, defunded your schools, made sure your hospital's closed. All of that stuff is, you know, state centric. And so when I realized it's, it's such an education, and when I also realized that the Democratic party doesn't fund candidates in rural spaces because they'll just say, “We can't do it. If we're not gonna win for a long time.”
You know, they put their hands up, and I thought, someone's got to do this. Someone's got to make sure that people running in these rural spaces and talking to their neighbors about education are funded because how immoral is it to ask someone to run, then not help them, not give them any money to do the things they need to do?
So, I work with Blue Missouri, and we are the only organization that consistently funds down-ballot Democratic nominees, even in the reddest and the toughest districts across the state. And I'm telling you we have, we don't often flip a seat.
But that's not the point of the matter. The point of the matter is getting people out to vote, telling them about politics, educating them through having someone knock on their door, and then making those little small incremental changes. You know, we, someone, we had, we funded someone who ran in the Boot Hill.
They hadn't had a Democratic candidate on the ballot since 2012. We are teaching people to vote against their self-interest because we don't give them a choice. And so, with my organization, we're like, we crowdfund money. We actually write checks. There's a lot of organizations who do training or whatever. We write checks, send it to the candidate and say, enter the chili Cookoff, enter the parade, knock on the doors, buy the lip, buy the gas. You know, do the things you need to do, so that we can go back down to Jeff City and turn this around.
And I'm gonna tell you this, the daylight between what a rural Republican and a rural Democrat want it's this much. We want the same things and school funding is one of those things that is bipartisan and that we all want.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah. It feels to me like a, certainly like a runaway train. It's like we woke up one morning and poof, our public education system. I mean, obviously, you know, we had an earlier conversation about, again, the full picture, the state of rural education across this country.
You know, I do believe in the power of conversation. I do believe in the power of making, you know, helping people connect the dots to your point, I mean, there is just very little daylight between really the issues that matter.
So, talk to me a little bit about, and to our listeners, about approaches that you have found to be effective when discussing public education issues with rural voters who may hold this wide range of political perspectives, but if we can find something that we can land on together, I'm just curious what you have found to be kind of an aha moment for people where they maybe not shift their perspective or their position, but at least start to think a little bit differently about how all this is going down.
Jessica Piper: So, I can give you a concrete example. Our state senator was a public-school teacher for 30 years. He ran for office, and he ended up accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars from a school choice organization called the Herzog Foundation. And everyone needs to know that name because they're not just a Missouri.
They are spreading out and trying to privatize public schools across the country. But they started in Missouri. But he took this money, and then he went to Jefferson City, and he started passing bills that would defund our local schools. And because people are so busy working, and because it's very difficult without local journalism to find the points that our state senator was the one who was defunding the schools.
It came out through local reporting, and he was just inundated by administrators, by superintendents who said, you lied to us. You said you would protect our local schools, and you didn't do it. And that state senator now is writing in the paper saying, I may lose my job because you guys won't quit talking about privatizing schools, and I'm like, that's a consequence. That was a choice you made.
But my neighbors found out that our state senator, who they voted for defunded, the schools, and everything has flipped on its head. They don't care about anything else he's done. They're not gonna talk about anything else except the fact that our local school may close. Their kids are not gonna have a football team to play on.
You know, they're gonna have to send their kids 30 miles to a school who was always, you know, the rival when they were in school. People love their local schools. And when you hear people talking about education in general and kind of being, you know, negative about it, when you ask 'em about their own school, what do they do, Michelle?
They're like, oh, not my school. I meant somebody else's school. Right. Because people love their schools. They know their administrators, they know their teachers. That is the one issue, that in healthcare that will have people, you know, changing their mind, and of recently affordability is also a big thing, but it education.
No one wants to lose their school.
Michelle Rathman: Nobody, nobody wants to lose their school. I was, I have made this data point in previous conversations in working with rural hospitals as they do. And when a rural hospital closes, you can see their school enrollment, you know, just plummets, and what that does to their bottom line.
Couple other questions for you. I mean, you just really, again, hit the nail on the head because rural communities rely on their schools, obviously, for the jobs that they create, you know, for the opportunities for children, and so forth. So, what advice, if you don't mind pondering this for a moment, can rural communities do for themselves, what can they do to protect their and sustain their local school?
Because this is not a hands-off, and this is not for one or two people to go do the good fight. Whole communities have got to build their bench and get involved. What, say you, Jess, to help them down that path?
Jessica Piper: We have to start with school administrators. They have to tell their community what is happening, and that's what started the ball rolling in my community: three different superintendents from local schools got together and said, 'Hey, we're gonna have to close our schools if they don't quit defunding us.'
And that got the community riled up. They send home, you know, schools send home weekly newsletters. Put in there a legislative update. Tell them what's happening in your capital, and then have the PTA have parents, have moms get together and organize, write postcards, and go down to lobbying days and make sure that they are talking to their community and other parents about what is happening.
'Cause Michelle, like I said, people are busy, especially now when you need two jobs to make it. We're busy. We've got to help the people realize what's happening, who is doing it, and how to speak to that. And we're educators. That's a thing that a local superintendent and a principal can do. Like I said, send it home in those newsletters and let the parents know.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah. Absolutely. That is great advice. Okay, the last question I have for you, I have so many more in my head, but this is the one I wanna ask you. You know, we have policymakers. Let's just say we have policymakers listening to this episode, and we hope that they do, and we're gonna make sure that we put a bug in their ear.
What can policymakers do? What do we need them to do to strengthen rural education systems? You know, 'cause we can't just throw in the towel here, recognizing what's happening with the Department of Education in itself, but what policies would make the biggest difference in your mind?
Jessica Piper: Right now, for us in Missouri, I know people don't wanna hear it, but it's money. You have to fund these schools. You have to make sure that they are open five days a week. You have to make sure that your teachers can actually make a living. Because when I talk about my local school here and how low the starting teacher pay is, well, my daughter had a teacher, a brand new teacher in second grade, a brand new teacher in third grade, a brand new teacher in fourth grade.
No shade to brand new teachers. But if your entire building, no one has tenure over 10 years, that's problematic. And that's what's happening because people can't afford to be teachers. My sister-in-law is a teacher educator at a local university. That university used to graduate 75 to 80 new teachers every year, recently 12. They graduated 12 because no one's going to go into teaching if we keep depre, you know, making it unprofessional.
You know, making them childlike, lording over them in every single decision, and not funding them. So, they really need the funding. And then beyond that, we need to recognize exactly we, what you were saying.
Rural schools are the heart and soul of every one of these communities. When they fail, the entire community fails, and we already know that we're losing our farms at an incredible rate that we don't have, you know, good-paying jobs out here that we have to drive. And we also know this fact, and this is devastating. Our children aren't coming back home. Our kids used to leave for college, and they would come back home.
They're not coming back home anymore. They're not gonna come home for a four-day school week in a place where you can't find childcare in the first place. So, you know, creating avenues for childcare, paying our teachers, and funding our schools.
Michelle Rathman: Absolutely. You know, I have to, I have to believe we've been around for a minute that public schools have always been a staple, a mainstay. Reliable. Dependable. I mean, for urban, rural, suburban, I don't see the school voucher or universal choice program outliving public schools, unfortunately, it's gonna leave them broke. And so, we have to take a look at this as a long game because our future depends on it, not just our children, but other generations.
Jess, I'm so grateful for your time. Where can our listeners follow you? And I think you should follow Jess.
Jessica Piper: You can follow me on Substack where I write about the rural issues all the time. It's called the View from Rural Missouri. I'm on Facebook and Instagram, and all the places, not Twitter. And then, they can also follow me at Blue Missouri. I'm the Executive Director, and that's what we do is crowdfund money, for candidates who are going to fight for, you know, public education.
And I appreciate you so much for having me on again, Michelle.
Michelle Rathman: Well, it is my pleasure, Jess. We're gonna, I say onward, we must go because what's the alternative to stay in bed all day? Some days that seems like it might be a good idea, but then your, your mind says it's time to get up and get moving.
Jessica Piper: Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Rathman: Okay. All right. For the rest of you, don't go anywhere, even though we have to say goodbye to Jess. I'll be back with just a few closing thoughts in just a moment.
Well, once again, my thanks to Dr. Melissa Sadorf from the National Rural Education Association. Really appreciate her insights, and I know we're gonna have her back because there was so much more that I wanted to talk to her about. And of course, my thanks to Jess Piper again, just encourage you to follow her on Substack.
She's got a lot of really interesting, insightful things to share. And I also just wanna mention, you know, the entire topic of school choice, for me anyway, is not about whether it's religious schools or anything like that, it really is about making sure that we are talking choice, we are authentically talking about school choice.
And as you heard today from just a few individuals, we've got a lot more coming your way on this subject, and actually does reduce the amount of choices for rural schools. And of course we've gotta keep that in mind.
So, with that said, I wanna remind you to subscribe so that you will not miss a single episode. You can do that anywhere where you'd like to get your podcast, and of course, if you subscribe to our show by visiting the rural impact.com, it's really easy. Takes just a few seconds. You can make sure that you get updates in your inbox from us and show recaps and letting you know what's coming up next and speaking about what's coming up next.
We've got a new episode coming out. We're in the middle of recording that right now, and the focus is on the state of America's rural postal service, United States Postal Service, and the impact of policy shifts where rural is concerned, and we cover a wide range of topics where that is concerned. So, we've got a lot of, as I say, irons in the fire. We're doing this all to make sure that we talk about these really important candid conversations, not the lightest subjects.
But at the end of the day, we do hope that you have walked away, enlightened and encouraged to learn something new when you visit our resource page, where you're gonna find links to so many of the articles, research papers, and policy briefs that we talk about here on the show.
Lastly, while you're on the website, be sure to click that merch button. Go get yourself a tote, shop rural, with a reusable bag. We sure appreciate any purchases that you make, and it's been fun to watch the orders come in. I can't wait to start to see pictures of you and your hats, t-shirts, whatever it is you decide fits you best.
So, until the next time, we're together again. I'm Michelle Rathman, and my invitation to you is to take the best possible care of yourself and all those around you. We will see you again on a brand new episode of The Rural Impact.
