76. Inescapable Impact of Immigration Policies Interview with Lynn Melling, Brian Depew and Betsy Froiland Transcript
Hello, one and all, and welcome back to The Rural Impact. I'm Michelle Rathman, and we are so grateful that you've joined us for another conversation that does work hard to connect the dots between policy and rural everything. Now, if you are joining us on YouTube, you will note that I am not in the studio today because I'm actually in Washington, DC.
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So, okay. On the subject of candid conversations, you may agree after listening to today's episode that it really does fit the bill because I'm gonna say it up front. It is not a light subject to be sure, and my hope I really do mean that is that by the time our time together is over today, what you've heard in the show in some way, shape or form enlightens you.
Now, if you are a subscriber or a longtime listener or if you know me, thanks again for that. If you are a subscriber, but you know that I have shared in the past that I am a proud native Minnesotan. My grandparents were farmers. My father was a farmer with his, with his siblings, and, many, many, many of my aunts and uncles and cousins still live there.
When my sisters and I were young. We were relocated to Illinois with our parents. But again, that's where Minnesota was, where I spent most of my summers the better part of my childhood. That's a subject for another day at another place, but I continue to be so blessed beyond measure to have aunts, uncles, and cousins and several friends living in Minnesota, many of them in rural places across the state.
And, like they have a front row seat bearing witness to the surge in violent immigration enforcement activities. And from those I've been in contact with, there and across the us, they're horrified, angry, and honestly in disbelief at the level of disruption in lives and livelihoods. Rural has not been spared.
You may be wondering why I am talking about this today, why we are having this conversation on The Rural Impact. And the reason is simply put because it is policy that brought this to Minnesota, to Illinois, Maine, so many other states across this country, and you simply cannot talk about immigration policy and not factor in rural.
That is just a fact. So we are going to be covering immigration policy on this podcast in the coming weeks and months, and not just conversations about what we're gonna be talking about today, but also how immigration policies are impacting US food supply, the impact on the ag workforce, as well as conversations that dive into the impact on rural health and again, the workforce, because you cannot escape that, what is happening in the situation where the, reductions in the H-1B workforce visa are concerned, which is very likely to exacerbate existing healthcare worker shortages, including rural physicians.
And also, we're gonna be talking about rural health, and, and not just on the workforce side, but in terms of patient care, because many people in this country, despite having legal status are foregoing their healthcare because of fear, not because they've done anything wrong, mind you. So like I said earlier, this is certainly not a light subject and I do hope what I've shared with you at this opener has provided you with some context, and as you learn more about how these current events are impacting people, families, and communities rural places in, in particular in Minnesota right now.
So, to help us talk about this and sort through many of the different aspects, I am really pleased to introduce you to our guests. And the first one you're going to hear from is Lynn Melling. And Lynn is the Co-Founder of 515 Productions. And also happens to be an Emmy and Murrow award-winning video storyteller.
Now Lynn is in Minnesota. She's a Minnesota resident, and she grew up in the small town of Melrose and recently traveled to her hometown to document what's happening there.
Next, I am so pleased to be joined by Brian Depew, Executive Director of the Center for Rural Affairs. I promise you, you want to hear my conversation with Brian because, uh, he goes on, he talks about so many of the big picture issues, but he also talks about a different way possible where immigration policy is concerned and the impact on rural. So very insightful as you can imagine.
And then lastly, after a quick, quick break, I'm joined by Betsy Froiland. Now Betsy is a freelance reporter whose piece in the February 2nd edition of the Daily Yonder entitled, 'A Small Town Under Ice Occupation', provides truly a granular level detail about the impact of Operation Metro Surge in the city of Willmar, Minnesota, population around 21,000.
Whew. So once again, we're glad you're here. And now I invite you to tune out that background noise because we know it's gonna be there when our time together is over. And listen to my conversations with Lynn Melling, Brian Depew and Betsy Froiland. Are you ready? I sure am. So, let's just go.
Michelle Rathman: Hey, Lynn Melling, Emmy and Murrow Award-winning video storyteller and the Co-founder of 515 Productions. Welcome to The Rural Impact. I mean it when I say we are so glad that you could join us. You are one of three guests who will share their really important insights about the inescapable impact of immigration policies on small towns in rural communities.
Welcome again to the podcast.
Lynn Melling: Thank you, Michelle. Thank you for, for doing this really important work.
Michelle Rathman: Well, thank you for your important work because I wanted to start with you. Again, I said you're one of three. I wanna start with you because you are from a town that has been directly impacted by ICE Operations and as it happened, you also have a unique skill, that's an understatement to share the story of your place in a way that helps us go there with you.
And I am so glad that we had a chance to talk before we started recording today, because as I share with you. I was born in Minnesota. I was born in St. Paul Hennepin County. Most of my family, my dad's family, and many generations still live in those areas. And when I discovered in looking at that MAP app is that the place you're gonna talk to us about is less than an hour away from where many of my family members are.
So, let's start there. Talk a little bit about Melrose, Minnesota.
Lynn Melling: Absolutely. Yeah. So, I grew up in Melrose. It's a town of about 3,600 people. It's in Stearns County, Minnesota, which is, politically a conservative part of the state. It is a little bit of background. It is the sister city to Legden, Germany. Because there are so many proud descendants of German immigrants living there.
So, there's a very big German, cultural impact in Melrose. When I was graduating from high school in the late nineties, we saw an influx of people moving in from Mexico and Central America to work in mostly agriculture. There's a Jennie-O Turkey processing plant in Melrose.
A lot of agriculture jobs, so, you know, and here we are 30 years later, that community has continued to grow, and it's now very prominent. You know, you walk down Main Street, and there's Latino owned businesses. They're very much part of the fabric of this community now. So yeah, that's a little bit about Melrose.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah, and it, I just find it interesting because, you know, I spent most of my summers as a child in very, very rural Minnesota. And you're right, you know that immigration is not a new business in Minnesota. I mean, for my family from Germany. So, what compelled you, I mean, you're not that far away, but what compelled you to go back and capture the conversations?
What's happening? Because as we're gonna talk about more in this episode today, we're gonna hear, I don't wanna give it away right now, but we're gonna be talking about the fact that it could be so easy to, you know, kind of pull the lens away and say, this is only happening in major cities. I happen to be outside west, west, west of the city of Chicago.
And yet, man, oh man, I mean, we, we know the impact in the areas where the corn fields grow.
Lynn Melling: Yeah. Yeah. So, if you're from a small town, or if you, if you grew up in a small town, you still live in a small town, you know how hard it is to speak up in a small town and go against the grain in a small town because you go to the grocery store with these people, you go, you know, to church, to school, to work with your neighbors.
There's very little anonymity in a small town. And I, 'cause I grew up there, I knew that you know, these, the surge was impacting Melrose, but we weren't hearing anything about it because people are afraid to talk about it. I now live in Minneapolis. My parents still live in Melrose. And it was the Monday after Alex Pretti was murdered, and I was sitting right here in this chair trying to figure out how can I use my resources in a strategic way to help tell this story to help people understand what's happening here.
And I decided to my husband, you know, he's a very talented videographer, and we packed up the truck and drove 90 minutes up the road just to my hometown, knowing that because I have, I grew up there, people hopefully would trust me more. They would open up to me more to tell their story to maybe open up and, share the story of what's happening there.
And, my unique situation is, I can drive 90 minutes up the road, open my mouth. If people don't like what I have to say, I get to drive 90 minutes back home, and if people don't like me for it, I probably will never even know it. So, I just felt very, I felt this responsibility to use my resources and my position to try to open up conversation in Melrose and, really, more than anything, break the silence and get people talking about what's happening.
Michelle Rathman: Well, and breaking the silence on camera and off cameras a bit of a different story, because you do mention that only a few people would talk to you on camera, that we kind of talked about this earlier, the Police Chief and the pastor share more about the conversations that you, that you can, with us, protecting those who there's a reason why they don't wanna be known, but that, that is a tough nut to crack, to be sure.
Lynn Melling: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are many, many, many people hiding in Melrose. There are many people who, you know, they are, have their work permits. They are in the process of becoming legal citizens of this country. For those of, not, for those people not aware, Mexican immigrants in this country, it can take up to 20 years to become a legal resident of this country.
So, what do they do in the meantime? Right? They have to work. And so, you know, there's so much fear of you know, these folks who are in hiding to share their story, they don't wanna expose themselves and put them at risk. And then on the other side, there's people who want to speak up on behalf of these immigrants.
So, let's talk like the descendants of the German immigrants want to speak up on behalf of these folks. But it's a very political, it's a very divided community on the issue of immigration, and it's difficult to have difficult conversations and to speak up. And so, I did not meet a single person or hear from a single person that was in support of the tactics that the current surge is using, to intimidate people to illegally detain people, to, there's the fear tactics, you know, detaining children, not a single person in Melrose that I spoke to is in support of that, but they are all afraid to speak up against it. Because you know, they don't wanna create waves.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah, and I feel privileged. Let me tell you that I can, I did have a friend of mine, say a colleague that's that I'm working with, say, aren't you, you know, a little, you know, any trepidation? And I said, absolutely not. I mean, it is, I think what we're talking about really is the impact of these policies on people's lives.
And I'm interested for you to talk to us a little bit about your conversation with the, with the sheriff. I, you know, that was so interesting to me, and wow, what I mean.
Lynn Melling: What a great guy.
Michelle Rathman: I say this often. Courage is calling. Let's see who answers.
Lynn Melling: Yep. Yes,
Michelle Rathman: That's his ability to stand there and answer, talk to us about that conversation.
Lynn Melling: Absolutely. Yeah. So, Police Chief Craig Mouse, what a great guy. He, so I, I went to high school with him,
Michelle Rathman: Hmm. That helps.
Lynn Melling: And so, and I have no idea of that. You know, maybe made him feel more comfortable opening up. I believe that he would have the courage to speak to any reporter, any journalist that were to come to Melrose.
I'm confident that he would have that courage. And, truly, you know, in this moment, you really understand who are the leaders of a community, and it is those who are willing to put themselves in front of a camera and talk about what's happening in a very calm way.
So Chief Mouse, you know, he kind of presented both sides, you know, he said, yes, absolutely. There are people here who knew they broke the law when they crossed the border. They didn't, you know, have the proper documentation with them. And you know, they are here, they're trying to provide for their families. They are not being criminally problematic. You know, so why are we dropping the hammer on these folks in such an over-the-top way?
So, his position was really like, sure, yes, we, there is an issue here. We need to figure it out, but let's do it in a responsible and reasonable way that doesn't disrupt our communities to the extent that it is.
Michelle Rathman: I wonder if you got any sense. Over the weekend, I listened to, I think it's This American Life, but there was a feature called, 9 1 1 What's your Emergency? And as someone who's also paying attention, being in the health industry myself, I think about these strains, you know, because again, if this was just happening in a bubble and as horrible as some of the images that we have seen really is, we'll talk a little bit later with a guest who will reference another incident in Minnesota, but I think about the strains that it's putting on emergency response resources and things of that nature.
Did you guys talk at all? Did you get a sense of how this might be impacting their capacity, if you will?
Lynn Melling: Actually, you know, in a, ironically, I dunno if ironically is the right word, but, unfortunately, and it's almost having the reverse impact, that he's seeing and he was, you know, they're seeing a drop in calls of people who are reporting you know, crimes, automobile accidents because they might be undocumented and they're afraid to call for help.
And the Melrose Police Department's philosophy has been, you know, we wanna address things that are a clear and present danger to somebody's, you know, safe, you know, safety in that moment, regardless of documentation. If somebody is in trouble and needs help, we want to help them.
And they're seeing a, a drop in calls to 9 1 1, or at least that's the sense that I got, and I don't have the data to back it up, but that's what I understood from him when he was conveying that to me. So, yeah, so I mean, it's, it has that, it's an interesting balance.
Michelle Rathman: It is just another, a layer, if you will, of the implications of how policy could then the ripple effect of that. And I said it can lift people up, or in some cases, really create some of the challenges, problems, and hardships that we're hearing about today. And that's what our conversation is about.
Lynn, before we close, tell us about the feedback you're hearing since just, I mean, that's a, it's not like this huge documentary, it's just a few minutes. It takes like five, six minutes of your time. But it's a thinker, as they say. So maybe a few closing thoughts about how others can help to amplify the policies through storytelling, because I mean, we have to document these things.
And, um, independent journalism, which we're also gonna talk about today, is very, very important in the connection with policy. What say you in terms of how we make sure that these stories are told, and amplified?
Lynn Melling: Yeah. Um, I have been absolutely blown away by the response to this video. I thought maybe three people would see it. I had no idea how far-reaching it would go. It is now. Here we are three days later, and it's been viewed on Facebook over 60,000 times. It's been shared almost 400 times. I'm hearing from people all over the country telling me, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for doing the story, which to me tells me that people are hungry for information that is presented in a calm and reasonable way.
People are looking for common ground, and they are not getting it because there's, there's so much chaos. Journalists are trying to put out fires left and right. There's not a lot of resources or laying around to just go tell a story that is kind of zooming out of the problem.
So, I think that's where, um, you know, storytelling can be really helpful. I think it needs to be done really thoughtfully, really carefully, because there is a risk, if not done in a really careful way, that it can backfire. It can do more harm than good, but I think when done correctly and with empathy and with context, it can present, two, two opposing viewpoints.
Here's our common ground, right? Like we can disagree on things, but we also have a lot in common, and let's start there. We the, we are in chaos. How do we stop the chaos? Let's find some common ground and just start talking to each other.
Michelle Rathman: Yes, I agree. Absolutely. Well, oh my gosh. Well, listen, I'm gonna put an invitation. I know we have to say goodbye to Lynn, but I, Lynn, I have to say what a pleasure it's been to talk with you, and we'll be following your work, and we'll put a link to your YouTube video. On our website and then,folks can be able to see it there if they can't find you elsewhere.
But don't go anywhere because we've got more of this dot-connecting conversation coming right back at you. We have so much more to talk about. We'll be right back.
Brian Depew Interview
Michelle Rathman: Well, Brian Depew, Executive Director at the Center for Rural Affairs, welcome to the Rural Impact. You know, we are really fortunate to have you join us this morning. I know you've got a busy day ahead.
Brian Depew: Glad to be here.
Michelle Rathman: All right folks. You know we are talking today on our episode. All the conversations are focused on the impact of immigration policies and specifically those connected with federal immigration actions, and how they affect small towns and rural communities.
And I was compelled to invite you on the show, Brian, for many reasons. One of those being that I read your February 2nd blog posted on the Center for World Affairs website. We're in you state. And, if you'll indulge me, I'm just gonna read one of your many lines that you wrote, sentences you wrote. "It can be easy for rural residents and rural policymakers to write off the news, write off the news streaming out of Minneapolis as something happening elsewhere. While the headlines have emanated from large urban areas, dig deeper, and it becomes clear that federal agents are active in rural areas too."
I am, I'm from Minnesota, Ryan, so I have family in rural Minnesota and they have been communicating with me about what's happening.
So, I wanna start there. Share more about, what you wrote about with our listeners about immigration actions in rural areas nationwide. And then kind of go down your list of citations, the examples that you wrote. Because if people are not paying attention, we want them to; they don't understand how wide scale this is and the impact.
Brian Depew: Yeah, I think that was true even for me. You know, our home office Center for Rural Affairs is in Lyons, Nebraska, town of 800 people in northeast Nebraska, and that's where I live and work every day. And I watched the ramp up, an enforcement action start in Minneapolis, in the news and in Chicago before that and in Los Angeles before that.
And it did seem like largely an urban story at first to me, even though I was paying attention. But I started to notice more and more news stories about enforcement actions in rural areas and small cities. And it really kind of just all crystallized and hit me last weekend when I saw the video and the imagery out of St. Peter, Minnesota, and it's one of the places I wrote about in the piece. Where ICE agents were active in St. Peter, Minnesota. And, a local woman was observing from a public roadway, and she was taking video, and they recklessly pulled her over, and three agents jumped out of the car, all with their guns aimed right at the driver who was taking video.
And this is in a town of 12,000 people in southwest Minnesota, and is just one of several examples, but it was some of the most aggressive behavior captured on video that, uh, I think that's the first time I'd seen imagery like that out of such a small town. And I know St. Peter, I drive through there on occasion.
It's a rural community in Minnesota. So that got me thinking more about it, and it's why I wrote the piece. But we have other examples as well in the piece. There was a surge of federal immigration agents into largely rural Maine. And I saw a map of all the places in Maine where there had been immigration actions and extensive interviews with folks outta Lewiston, Maine, which is I think 37,000 people, talking about how most people that had been targeted were legal asylum seekers and other folks with legal status.
And then the other example that I lifted up in the piece was a small city, Springfield, Ohio. Been in the news for a long time, of course, but you know, they're really on edge in Springfield, Ohio. And that's just a town of 58,000 people with 15,000 Haitian immigrants who, again, are legally present in the country, and they're just, they're on their toes because there's rumors and threats that that's gonna be the next area that the federal government surges into for enforcement action.
Michelle Rathman: Brian, so our listeners, we are recording this on the 5th of February, and this will drop, you're, you're hearing this the following week, and there was a stay, I don't have all the technical details, but there was a stay from action to, you know, just basically wipe the map of these Haitians who are here with legal status.
And as you write, it's 25% of the local population that have revitalized that local economy. And to your point, it's not; they have been in the news before for all the wrong reasons. And so, let's talk a little bit about what, you know, what we're seeing aside from the initial trauma, and I mentioned to you before we started recording, I was in Nebraska, I was in Grand Island, Nebraska over the summer as well as, Kearney, Nebraska. And this was in June, when enforcement actually just started happening. And we were seeing in real time, farm workers being you know, taken from the field that they were working in and I was, I was stunned at that image back in the summer.
So, let's talk a little bit about the impact on small towns. Maybe the not so obvious, aside from the initial trauma that people are witnessing. What are you seeing? What's your sense? I know that you wrote a little bit about what the Farmer's Union had to say at a press conference. Maybe you can shed some light, where that is concerned.
Brian Depew: Sure, so in the piece I wrote about the press conference that the Minnesota Farmers Union had, where the Minnesota Farmers Union President was lifting up again, the pretty extensive action statewide in Minnesota, and the impact that it has had, particularly on agricultural manufacturing, agricultural processing facilities that oftentimes have new immigrant workforces and how they were experiencing a shortage of workers. And again, just people are afraid to go to work regardless of their legal immigration status. And I think that's the thing to really stress, right? And so, it is staying home because they're afraid of getting caught up in this dragnet approach to enforcement.
But it's not just agriculture. Newer immigrants make up a really large portion of the workforce in construction, in rural communities, in service industry, and they're small business owners as well in many of our communities. So the breadth of the impact across our economies in small communities and rural America from immigration has been really significant.
And the impact of these enforcement actions that have people scared to go to work is really significant as well.
Michelle Rathman: And we're talking also about our healthcare workforce as well. And we're also looking at what's happening to children, and impeding them from being able to, be educated.
Before I go on, I just wanna say I have read, and I've been writing a lot about this. I have read so many I'm just gonna say it, quite ignorant comments on social media about, "Hey, you know, this is what people voted for." And I wonder if you could just off the top of your head, think about what, how you would respond to those who think, well, this is what rural America wanted. In fact, that is not the case. But I wonder if you have any thoughts about that because you are focused on the bigger picture of rural.
Brian Depew: Yeah, I mean, I live in work in these communities every day, and I see how new immigrants are welcome in these communities. They're running businesses, they're a vital workforce, and the public opinion polling shows as well. Both on the more positive side. You know, there's strong, been for a long time strong bipartisan support for positive immigration reform in this country.
That's been the case for many years, decades at this point. And then simultaneously, in the new public opinion polling, I think we're seeing. Pretty roundly across demographics and across political persuasions, people saying that they think the current enforcement actions go much too far, in how they're being conducted.
Michelle Rathman: All right. So we, we know what the challenges are and we know what we're seeing before our eyes, but what we can't see is the future. I wish we had a crystal ball, and we could, but you do write about a different way is possible. So, because we like to focus on the things that we can do here on this podcast as well, talk more about that, please.
Brian Depew: Yeah, I mean, for 20 years we've needed immigration reform. There's been broad bipartisan consensus of that among the public, and at times, there's been broad bipartisan consensus among policymakers. Wasn't that long ago that we had, you know, a gang of six or a gang of aid in the Senate, a bipartisan gang trying to, craft comprehensive immigration reform, and that needs to include expanded legal pathways for people to come to the United States to become part of our communities and expanded pathways for people to become permanent residents and citizens.
These folks, they're deeply embedded in our communities in many ways already, and the current situation is untenable and it's on our mind a lot. But I wanted to remind folks that a different way and a better way is possible. These are policy decisions.
We can make different decisions as a nation, and we really don't have any choice. We have to make different decisions as we move forward.
Michelle Rathman: You're right, and it is a policy decision. And one of the things that's been so frustrating to me is that there is a policy in place for legal pathways, and those policies have been largely, you know, kind of ignored or snuffed out of the picture. And that's so frustrating to me because people are working through the legal pathways. All right, because again, you know, we are looking to connect the dots between policy and rural quality of life. Brian, share with us if you could, a kind of a call to action because you know, sitting at our keyboards, frustrated and screaming into the void isn't gonna help us. So, talking about comprehensive immigration reform, especially touching on those decades long failure that you talk about, what can we all do to advocate for that policy? What needs to happen now? 'cause we can't change the past. Today is the present. The gift we have, perhaps going forward, is that we can control this future. What say you?
Brian Depew: And we still live in a democracy, and I still fundamentally believe, you know, people need to be engaged with their policy makers, need to call their US Senators. They need to call their house members, let them know how they feel about what's happening now, but also let them know that they support comprehensive immigration reform.
It can feel challenging in moments like this to be heard or be challenged, whether you're being heard. But we also know that public pressure is the only thing that moves Congress, and we have many examples of public pressure moving Congress at the end of the day.
Michelle Rathman: Yes, and, and, and constructively. I mean, I just wanna put that out there. I mean, screaming and yelling and all that. We have to do it constructively. And at the end of the day, I think logic hopefully can win. All right, so folks can learn more about your work, I'd love to have you come back and talk to us about other issues 'cause it's not the only thing you're focused on by, to be sure. How can they follow you and learn more about your work? Brian?
Brian Depew: Yeah, you can look us up online, Center for Rural Affairs cfra.org. Find our website and you can find other ways to follow us from there. Sign up for our newsletter, find links to our social media. But just look us up. Center for Rural Affairs. Would love to have you.
Michelle Rathman: Great. We'll make sure that we put those resources and your blog on our website. Brian, we bid you adieu. But for the rest of you stay with us 'cause we'll be back with more rural impact conversation.
Betsy Froiland Interview
Michelle Rathman: Hey, Betsy Froiland, welcome to The Rural Impact. Your reporting is so essential. We've had a few conversations today, but I'm really glad to have this conversation because as I said, your reporting is so essential, especially now. Thank you for joining us on the show.
Betsy Froiland: Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Michelle Rathman: Well, as I mentioned, in our opener to folks, you wrote a piece that was featured in the Daily Yonder on February 2nd. And in my view, it's a must read for everyone in America, no matter what your zip code, for many reasons. But, earlier in the conversation we heard from, Mr. Brian Depew, Executive Director at the Center for Rural Affairs, and he shared his very unique perspective on how easy it has been for rural residents and rural policymakers, for that matter, to write off the news, streaming out of Minneapolis as something that's happening somewhere else.
And he also shared a few examples from high, a high-level view, but your reporting provides us with details that really do demonstrate the profound impact of current immigration policies and enforcement policies on people working and working to live, as I say, in, in rural places, you know, just working to survive.
So, Betsy, let's start there. Tell us some background about your piece. How did you arrive at writing about a place called Willmar, Minnesota?
Betsy Froiland: So, thank you for that, for that background and that context. So Wilmar Minnesota is, a very diverse rural community. You can see it, you know, just by walking around their downtown area. There are all kinds of different restaurants and grocery stores, which is a bit unique, you know, for a town of about 21,000 people.
So, it's a town that's very much enriched by the immigrant communities that live there as specifically immigrants with Somali and Latino descent. These are people who have lived in Willmar for decades. Um, people have been moving to Willmar throughout the 20th century. You know, a lot for the same reason that people immigrated there, a long time ago from Norway and Sweden to find work opportunities and to make a life for themselves and their families in Willmar.
So, it's been this immigrant community for a very long time, and the residents I talked to were very proud of that fact. It was very much a part of the community identity for them. In the piece I wrote, there was, you know, a picture of this mural that had different, crockpots, which is a Midwestern class things.
Michelle Rathman: I see. Yes, I know. Bring, bring some to share. Yeah. We used to call it when I was a get hot dish, 'cause I'm from Minnesota.
Betsy Froiland: Ah, yeah, a cultural divide. But there is, there's this mural in the downtown area that has different crockpots with the different flags of, different identities that people have there. So it's very much a point of pride, the diversity in the community.
And you know, we've been seeing in the past few months that the federal administration views it very differently, with the ICE campaign in Minnesota that we've been seeing over the past few months, you know, the coverage has mostly focused on Minneapolis and St. Paul, which are certainly hotspots. But you know, this is, the metro surge is also affecting areas not in the metro as I've seen in Wilmar.
You know, there are these small towns with diverse communities and ICE is certainly spreading out to those places. So I wanted to, with this piece, focus on one of those communities, and highlight, you know, both the diversity and then also, the fear and the violence that ICE has brought to it.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah, and you did so well because, you know, it's easy to just think, you know, hear a name of a community and then move on. But then to meet the people and talk with them and sit with them and hear them andliterally listen to their stories. So let's talk about some of the people you met, some of the conversations you had, and what you gleaned from those conversations so that people can humanize, humanize, and put that into context of this unfolding very unfortunate situation that so many people find themselves forced into.
Betsy Froiland: Yeah. So I went to Willmar a couple weeks ago, and I met with about 15 residents who had been impacted by ICE, and what they were doing in their community. It was really a broad range of different kinds of residents. There were parents, children, high school students, business owners, you know, but all people who had lived in Willmar for a long time had deep roots there, some who had lived there their entire lives.
And everyone I met, everyone around the table had been impacted by the ICE siege in some sort of way. Some people had witnessed ICE arrest their neighbors, seen it firsthand. Some people had experienced ICE brutalizing them and terrorizing them themselves. And some people, you know, had just been living in fear of ICE, in fear of ICE coming to their home or to their place of work, or just finding them out in the community.
I wanna clarify here that these are not just people who are undocumented folks. There are definitely some of those, but even people who were legally in the country, even US citizens, expressed that they were afraid of ICE. Because, you know, recently they have just been stopping anyone who looks to them to be black or brown.
So there was one woman, young woman I talked to, she was about 18 years old, a US citizen who had lived in Willmar her entire life. And she was violently dragged out of her car by ICE and followed to her home by ICE on multiple occasions. So, you know, this is something that is affecting even US citizens.
Michelle Rathman: In so many ways. In so many ways, in so many ways, aside from just being personally in you have the pain personally inflicted upon you. Just the, the mental anguish of watching that's happening. You know, Betsy, this is something where, you know, I am having these conversations, and I will absolutely steer clear of anyone who wants to shift the conversation to me, to the what about, because that's not where I go.
We really take a look at policy and the impact on quality of life and in earlier conversations, we talked about there being a different way, but I want you to share with us what you learned about the, the impact on the financial aspect of this, the financial hardship that this is causing and that on children and working parents and local businesses, because this is not you know, this is not a faceless problem. These are real people's lives who are being subjected to some pretty stunning interruptions.
Betsy Froiland: Yeah. So I, when I went to Willmar, we were actually meeting, in a restaurant that had closed its doors to the public. It was, you know, the middle of a day on a Saturday, and usually it would be bustling with lunch business. But we were the only ones in the restaurant because, it had closed its stores about three weeks ago due to ICE.
And this is not the only business in Willmar that had been doing this. There were many businesses, restaurants, grocery stores, who had closed their doors because employees were afraid to come in, or regular patrons weren't coming in because they were, you know, nervous about what ICE might do. So, you know, a lot of people around the table expressed that their businesses were struggling.
And, on top of that you mentioned children. I learned that a lot of children have been missing school because of this. A resident who works with kids said that some kids have been expressing that, they're afraid that their parents will be taken by ICE or they'll, they're afraid that they'll be taken by ICE while they're walking to or from school.
So, there's an enormous, you know, economic toll on the community, but also, you know, the toll of kids missing schoolwork and this immense psychological impact that everyone will be dealing with, for a long time to come. And one more thing I'll share is just this one resident pointed out the irony of all of this, that the rhetoric from the Trump Administration is that, this is making America greater, bigger, and better. But you know, the residents reported to me that this is, that's exactly the opposite of what's happening in their community. It's making them poorer and smaller and just more afraid.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah, and I would also point out the connection because that's what we do here. It's connected dots. I would also point out the connection to how of this impedes health. You know, how are we healthier when the prevailing feeling is terror and fear and the mental anguish and the images that people can't unsee and the noises that they can't unhear?
I think that's also really important for us to bear out in the conversations that we're having in the future. I thank you for bringing it to our present so that we can, it's kind of a launchpad for us to have these courageous conversations because our previous guest talked about the fact that she could hardly find, but a few people to talk to her on camera, for fear of any kind of retribution.
Did you find that to be the case? It seemed like you, you were able to gather a good group of people, and what, what is the, what is the, are there concerns there with the speaking out that you could, pick up on your own?
Betsy Froiland: Certainly, yeah, definitely people were afraid. Some people didn't want their names, shared publicly, but I think alongside that fear there was also an immense desire among the people in Willmar that I talked to, to have their story told. So, I think people still wanted to share out about what was happening, but that was something that was coexisting with the fear that they felt, because I think everyone's afraid of retribution right
Michelle Rathman: But there are enough people who are, are, , mobilizing, organizing, advocating in one paragraph kind of a sub-paragraph of your pieces. It starts like this.
So let's talk before we close out about the community and what they're doing to stay connected. Insights and how they're managing their resources, because we've also talked about how this, you know, kind of stretches the capacity of local resources to respond to concerns, threats, you know, 9 1 1 calls, and so forth. So what's their, what's their way forward? If that's the right way to put it.
Betsy Froiland: Yeah. The people of Willmar, I will tell you are definitely not just sitting back and watching this unfold. Everyone around the table that I talked to had been stepping up in some sort of way to help their neighbors through this difficult time. And I think, you know, in a rural community, something unique about it is that, um, there are those small town connections, and people are already, you know, the people who have been arrested are, are classmates, are, you know, friends of people.
So there are those, you know, grassroots connections that already exist, but people are mobilizing in a lot of different ways. You know, people talked about doing grocery runs and giving rides to neighbors who are afraid to leave their homes. People are protesting, kids have walked outta school.
People are just keeping watch of the streets for ICE, you know, wearing whistles, like they're doing in the cities as well, to alert their neighbors when ICE is around, and, you know, ready to record any ICE arrests on their phone. And also, you know, picking up the pieces after neighbors are arrested.
So, you know, returning belongings and finding family, family members, and, you know, figuring out care for children and pets. So, if there has to be, you know, a silver lining in all of this, the community is definitely coming together, in some pretty amazing and beautiful ways, and there are, it's an incredibly resilient community in Willmar for sure.
Michelle Rathman: Well, I hope that your story reaches those who are making, you know, policy is only exists because of our policy makers who design them for us, and enact them, for us. So, at this point, I do hope that those who have the influence to change the policy to make sure that we're more and more any community, let alone rural communities, are not impacted in such a way.
Because, again, as you so aptly point out in your piece, it's not just one thing, there are layers and layers and layers of complexity to this. And, without the silver lining of neighbors helping neighbors, the rest of it is pretty unnerving.
Betsy Froiland: For sure.
Michelle Rathman: Alright, before we let you go, I would be remiss again, I tell folks we are recording on February 5th.
You're gonna hear this one week later. And of course, I think it's important for us to talk, also talk about the importance of independent journalism, accessible to those living and working in small towns and rural areas. This piece that you wrote appeared in the daily yonder. I I reference it often. In this point in time, reporters like you and accounts like yours are so important.
So talk to us a little bit about. Your thoughts on why it's so important to support the work of independent journalists working in the rural space where others dare not to go, unfortunately.
Betsy Froiland: You know, I think in the news and media space, it's a lot it's just information overload right now. What I've been finding really rewarding about this kind of independent journalism, specifically in a rural space, is that it's so rooted in the people. You know, independent journalists, like at outlets like the Daily Yonder and others that are doing similar work, are actually going out and talking to people, talking to people who, whose voices aren't normally heard, about the rural, about the policies that are affecting them in rural places. So, I do think for those reasons, the work that's rooted in people is really important right now.
Michelle Rathman: Yeah, thanks for that. The story is about them told by you versus you, and that makes a difference to me. So, Betsy, thank you so much. We're gonna make sure that we put links on our website to this story and other work. Where can folks follow you if they want to?
Betsy Froiland: You know, my work is published in the Daily Yonder and, another outlet called Barn Raiser. So, you can follow me there.
Michelle Rathman: Wonderful. Thank you so much. All right. For the rest of you, thank you to Betsy again for joining us. This has been quite, many courageous conversations today. Stay with us. We'll be back with some closing thoughts. We'll be right back.
Once again, my thanks to Brian Depew for his unique insights and also to Lynn Melling and Betsy Froiland for really helping us to better understand the stories of those experiencing immigration enforcement actions on the ground and in real time. Now, before I leave you today, I want to share with you one more thing because as you heard me say at the top of the show, I am not in the studio because I am in our nation's capital.
And I am capturing rural voices at both the National Association of Community Health Center's Policy and Issues Forum, as well as the National Rural Health Association's Policy Institute. One of the conversations I had today was with a woman named Mary Zelazny is the CEO of Finger Lakes Community Health, which is a community health center or also known as a federally qualified health center that provides care to about 28,000 patients per year.
And of those 28,000 patients, about 23% are farm workers as well as farmers. So, recall that I also shared, we are doing, we're gonna be focused on connecting many more dots with respect to how immigration policies are impacting rural. Including what this means for the delivery of care to patients. Now, Mary shared the following with me on the subject, and now I'm going to, share it with you as well because I believe it's within our collective best interest to understand the ripple effect in both human terms and the implications for rural economies.
So Mary shared the following. Community health centers will care for anyone who comes through their doors. Our goal is to keep people connected to primary care so that they can get help early before small problems turn into serious illness. When people feel unsafe or afraid to leave home or work, they often put off care that can lead to avoidable trips to the hospital, higher medical bills, missed work, and much more stress for the families. It hurts patients, and it also increases costs for the whole healthcare system because primary care is much less expensive than emergency or hospital care. You cannot poke a hole in that story. So, my thanks to Mary for spending some time with me today.
And just one more thing, just a few moments ago, I'm gonna try and get some video as a part of our YouTube feature. I had the thrill of a lifetime to witness this very small group, although they're numbers all over this country on their walk, a very inspiring group of Venerable Monks and their walk for peace.
Which, if you've been following, is a 2300-mile community supportive walk that encourages non-harm, kindness, and mindful living. Something to think about in the context of today's conversation. I thank all of you for joining us again for an episode of The Rural Impact, and to Sarah Garvin for her incredible creative and editing genius, and to Brea Corsaro for all she does for the show behind the scenes. I thank you both.
I invite you to follow us on LinkedIn, BlueSky, Facebook, and Instagram, and until the next time we're together, I remind you over and over, please take the best care of yourself and, to the best of your ability, all those around you. You will see you soon on a new episode of The Rural Impact.
